“Be a god. Just imagine a world in love with you. Narcissism is the best cure for madness.”
1. Readers may remember our comments regards A. C. De (aka. Prabhupada, iskcon hare krishna cult founder) and obvious DE-ifferences in his spoken and written English. To view this chameleon in monochrome, researchers must follow zetetic to uncover a narcissist indoctrinated by Roman Catholic missionaries, confused by Islamic fundamentalism, and finally discovering his utopia in American cult iDEalism and zealotry.
2. De tossed
his chopped-up Indianness into a crackpot of Gaudiya (Bengali) sectarianism and
stirred it with a “Vedic” ladle. He then got American DE-sciples to catalog his
cult recipe for world domination. His ghostwriters were bum-boys whom De gave NO
credit in ANY published cult text or belles-letters ... whereas De, shamelessly
undersigned the work as his own (claiming it was dictated to him by blue
god-krishna,) and then insisted his mug be posted on every publication….. front
and back. Yet no one questioned why basic courtesy was never enacted
acknowledging Yankee wordsmithery. De didn’t give a hoot. He hell-scared his
cultists into street-flogging HIS books around the
world for donations. The street hustle was DEtermined as DEvotional Service and
DEclared, along with chanting hare krishna, a primary penance for DEliverance-
Back to Godhead.
3. De was ruthless in establishing himself guru good-as-god … replica par excellence. Using American ghostwriters to elucidate in English his DE-ictatorial DEcretal De plagiarized the writings and translations of bygone Indian fantasists over whose imaginings he imposed his own purports and edicts to create godman worship of himself- Prabhupadism: “He is to be accepted as guru and worshiped exactly like Hari, the personality of Godhead.”
4. Below we post some of De's unabashed claims (and contradictions) to being god by proxy, and the assertion that he was formally appointed to that position by DE-sciplic succession from time eternal. So here’s a gander at the nefandous narcissist flip-flopping his factitive and factotums:
“Mundane votes have no jurisdiction the elect a Vaisnava acharya. A Vaisnava
acharya is self-effulgent, and there is no need of any court judgment.” (Cc.
Madhya 1.220, Purport)
5. Self-effulgent? De didn't have ... De-ghost-of-an-idea what that meant. So we gotta ask whose butt did De's ghostwriters pull that one from? What is a Vaisnava acarya, anyway? There were no Vaisnava acaryas around until De's guru (Bhaktisiddhanta) fabricated a list of whoopee-cushions (HERE) to which he added his name and that of his father- BhaktiviNO Thakur. De republished that fake inventory in his iskcon Bhagavad Gita As It Is ... and added his name on the tail-end. We see no self-effulgent Vaisnava acaryas. All we see is an abetted DEception making De what he was and always will be ..... a DEfrauding DEicide.
guru can become guru when he is ordered by his guru. That’s all. Otherwise
nobody can become guru.” (Conversation, Oct. 28, 1975,
6. First De edicts an acarya elected by self-effulgence, then he DEcides acaryas come in succession by order of authority. And where is there ANY proof of De being ordered by his guru? There is NONE! Not only is there no proof of his appointment but there is ample proof that De, on a morning walk with followers, DEcided to call himself "PRABHUPADA" (the master at whose feet all other masters sit.) His self-imposed honorific met with protest by senior members of the original Gaudiya sect. The protest was ignored. Anyway, if the criterion was when he is ordered by the guru, why didn't De order his DE-sciples to become guru? When asked about future gurus in iskcon...when you are no longer with us, he was ambiguous. Only one DE-rective was made clear from that conversation i.e. DE-ME-GOD Prabhupada was a one-eyed narcissist who wanted to rule, even in DEath, his kingdom of the blind.
c) “Vallabha Bhaṭṭa wanted to be initiated by Gadādhara Paṇḍita, but Gadādhara Paṇḍita refused, saying, ‘The work of acting as a spiritual master is not possible for me. I am completely dependent. My Lord is Gauracandra, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. I cannot do anything independently, without His order.’ ” (Cc. Antya 7.150,151)
publishing this nonsense De created for himself an aura superior to sect-fabled
incarnates. In the quotation above he steps on the shoulders of a close
confidant of transgender god-Caitanya (Gadadhara) to promote himself as
empowered beyond that Bengali god's intimate associates. So what eventuated
while De was alive,* and still persists
(Prabhupadaism,) comes as no surprise. Those who saw
opportunity for adoration ... easy money and slaves, went along with the scam.
They were narcissists themselves, like De. After De's death they also adopted
titles .... 'Acaryapada' ... 'Acaryadeva' ...
'Bhaktipada' ... 'Srideva' ... 'Gurudeva' ... 'Visnupada'
... etc. Hot-dog Yankee
one day and hot-god Hari the next.
* "Satsvarupa was trying to explain what was taking place in North America in regards to the unnamed "four sannyasis" who were preaching impersonalism. Their "impersonalism" stemmed from the fact that they had misunderstood or misinterpreted the philosophy by stating that Srila Prabhupada was actually God. Mainly they were preaching that he had left America because he felt offended on account of the fact that the devotees, his disciples and followers, had not recognized the fact that he was God and therefore he had withdrawn his mercy and left them as a result."
d) “When one has attained the topmost position of maha-bhagavata, he is to be accepted as guru and worshiped exactly like Hari, the personality of Godhead. Only such a person is eligible to occupy the post of guru.” (Cc. Madhya, 24.330, Purport, citing Padma Purana.)”
8. Here De complicates matters even further. First he nominates a self-effulgent acarya (whatever the hell that means,) then he imposes an authoritarian succession- become guru when he is ordered by his guru. Then, in the statement above, he crushes the aspirations of his narcissistic followers by pointing to a (topmost position) Ravan Ladder they never knew existed.
De had lured many dangerous narcissistic and sociopathic followers- Serve ME as your guru and I will endorse you good-as-god by DE-sciplic succession, so you can enslave the world like I am doing. De was too involved with his own self-importance to notice the Frankencult / Cultenstein he was cross-wiring.
9. It is not De's ambiguity that draws attention, but his self promotion ; his absolutism and narcissistic aspirations. Since he was the only one occupying the post of guru in iskcon, De was referring solely to himself as equivalent to god ... a DEflexure of worship from god to man. Yet, in truth, De was a high-school dropout, a snake-oil salesman, a traitor to Hindustan and Hinduism … A man who deserted his family to DEfraud DEwy-eyed Americans by creating for himself a spiritual background and omniscience that was fictitious. De created a false instrument and used it to DEceive ... as we will show in the transcribed conversation posted further below.
spiritual master is never to be an object of disciplinary
10. Not only did De DEvise a false “Vedic” instrument by citing fabricated ad vericundium, he also used it to protect himself from cult zombies and xenophobes .... "yadi vaisnava-aparadha uthe hati mata." He made sure no matter how much DEmagogue he fed his flamen followers they would never countermand, gainsay or abrogate his DE-ictates, DE-octrine, DE-ogma, or claimed DEscendance. De made sure he DEceived with plenty wriggle room in reserve. However, when confronted and questioned (for the first and only time,) as shown in PART TWO of this post, he fell apart. Even though his DE-sciples questioned him in a mood of awe and reverence, they exposed him as an obnubilate psychoneurotic. Which resulted in loss of 'omniscience' in the eyes of his equally narcissistic egomaniacal DE-dreamers who also wanted to be god ... like De. Not only did De renege on his promise to anoint them gurus but he wove iskcon gurudom into a basket-case. A few years later he was heard whimpering before dying - " ....someone has poisoned me."
bona fide spiritual master is in the disciplic succession from time eternal, and
he does not deviate at all from the instructions of the Supreme Lord…”
(Bhagavad-gita As It Is, 4.42, Purport.)
11. Sounds great but for the facts : the disciplic succession from time eternal was really a list of nobodies beneficed by fraud. Only a minute percentage of listed names have some vague historical mention, and only in Vaisnava sectdom. Even those identifiable have nothing to do with iskcon or the Gaudiya Chaitanya cult, which iskcon hails as genesis.
It is our belief that De's more intellectual disciples were aware of the truth. And then, when giving De enemas and witnessing him urinating, defecating and drooling in bed, and in the presence of guests (read our book, JFY p-110,) the DElirium tremens kicked in : they realized he was no more DE-ME-GOD than an unflushed floater.
g) “He opens my darkened eyes and fills my heart with transcendental knowledge. He is my lord birth after birth. From him ecstatic prema emanates; by him ignorance is destroyed. The Vedic scriptures sing of his character.” (Sri Guru Vandana, Verse 3)
12. LIES! The guru is NOT anyone's lord birth after birth. The Vedic scriptures may sing of his character only if he is a good teacher. Nevertheless, that does not make him lord birth after birth. The truth, according to the Vedas, is that guru is one of five teachers. Significantly, the 'altruistic teacher' (De) comes in at number four on the list of priority. So why did De promote himself above the other three superior instructors by citing falsified scripture and his bogus honorific to claim himself lord birth after birth? Or is De suggesting humans are born to the same parents birth after birth, and are educated by the same pedagogues birth after birth? But that is not what De preaches. He claims the altruistic teacher (i.e. De) is the only guru empowered to control souls ... lord birth after birth. Which relegates the other Veda identified superior instructors to a transitory status : temporary and of less significance. How narcissistic is that? Here is the list of teachers in order of priority as per the Vedas:-
(1) "The first object of worship is the
mother. It is the duty of her sons and daughters to serve this goddess with all
their heart and all their soul, and keep her happy. Let her never be treated
(2) "Second object of worship is the father. This God should also be served like the mother."
(3) "The third object of worship is the teacher who bestows knowledge (upon his pupils). This God should also be served with utmost devotion."
(4) "The fourth object of worship is the altruistic teacher of humanity who is learned, deeply religious, upright, well-wisher of all and goes from place to place preaching the truth the thereby making the people happy."
(5) "The fifth object of worship is the husband for the wife and the wife for the husband."
h) “One should take initiation from a bona fide spiritual master coming in disciplic succession who is authorized by his predecessor spiritual master. This is called diksa-vidhana. (Bhagavad-gita As It Is, 4.8.54, Purport)
13. Well then De does not figure at all because the iskcon DE-sciplic succession was a fraud committed by his guru- Bhaktisiddhanta. And De was never authorized by his spiritual master. There is no evidence from anywhere or anyone proving he received such an order. In fact, De confirms in his statement below that his guru DID NOT APPOINT ANYONE AS ACARYA.* And when we get down to the nutty-gritty, De's guru also faked his own status. Bhaktisiddhanta initiated himself, then gave himself brahman initiation, then gave himself sannyas initiation, and then declared himself an acarya. So both De and his guru were frauds. There was never any disciplic succession from god. All it ever was, was a third-world Bengali snake-oil hokey-pokey diddling Yankee Doodles.
* De: “They did even consider with common sense—that if Guru Maharaja wanted to appoint somebody as acarya, why he did not say? He said so many things, and this point he missed? The real point? And they insisted upon it. The declared some unfit person to become acarya. And then another—‘Acarya!’ Another—‘Acarya!’ So better to remain a foolish [simple] person perpetually to be directed by Guru Maharaja. That is perfection. And as soon as he [the upstart] learns that Guru Maharaja is dead, ‘Now I am so advanced that I can kill my guru and I become guru.’ Then he’s finished.” (Conv. Aug. 16, 1976, Bombay).
i) “Guru is one. He has no
independent ideas or opinions.”
14. Nonsense! De would not, could not, shut up. His pompous opinions were ignorant repetitions of what he had heard from other ignorami. Read any of our articles … the BIF web site is loaded with his macaronic mumblings and myopia.
j) “A bona fide spiritual master is in the disciplic succession from time eternal, ..." (Bhagavad-gita As It Is, 4.42, Purport)
15. Time eternal? What disciplic succession is he talking about? The West first heard of the DEsciplic succession from De. It has gone no further since his DEath. What there is today is what the sect always had ... a bevvy of narcissistic beggars blabbing ass-biting canon.
16. Cults are renowned sanctums for sociopathic egos. There is no better incubator for these twisters to breathe and breed.
We present the famous Nine Characteristics of a Narcissist for comparison to the list of De quotes, above and below, to get an understanding of what impelled DE-ME-GOD and his god fraud- Prabhupadism.
1. Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
2. Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3. Believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
4. Requires excessive admiration
5. Has a very strong sense of entitlement, e.g., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
6. Is exploitative of others, e.g., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
7. Lacks empathy, e.g., is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
8. Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes.
k) “The spiritual master is always considered either one of the confidential associates of Radharani or a manifested representation of Sri Nityananda.” (Cc. Adi. 1.46, Purport)
17. Read our article- "Rather Runny" to understand how rhetrologic was applied to authenticate fable and impose fraud.
l) “The spiritual master is
not the question of [‘living’ or ‘dead’]… The spiritual master is eternal–the
spiritual master is eternal.” (Lecture, Oct. 2, 1968, Seattle, WA) — “I will
never die. I shall live from my books, and you will utilize.” (Interview, July
16, 1975, Berkeley, CA) — “Although a physical body is not present, the
vibration should be accepted as the presence of the spiritual master.
Vibration—what we have heard from the spiritual master—that is living.”
(Lecture, Jan. 13, 1969, LA, CA) – “One should consider the Acharya to be as
good as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In spite of these instructions, if
one considers the spiritual master an ordinary human being, one is doomed.”
(Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.15.26, Purport)
18. Using rhetoric as noted above, De reneged his promise to 'authorize' his followers as gurus. When De was openly questioned about the guru issue. He nominated eleven of his followers to initiate ON HIS BEHALF (ritvik proxies.) So without De's authentication ... guru when he is ordered by his guru ... there was never going to be another acarya, EVER! De DEsired his narcissistic persona remain present forever ... eternal.. lord birth after birth. This did not bode well with the aspirations of narcissists surrounding him : those who wanted to be good-as-god and whose ambitions to that end had been thoroughly exploited by De.
m) “Regarding the disciplic
succession, there is nothing to wonder for big gaps. We have to pick up from
prominent acarya and
follow from him.” (Letter, April 12, 1968.)
19 The statement above was made to explain away enormous 'disciplic' gaps in iskcon's list of DE-sciplic successors. By adding a few of his daddy's bum-chums and sprucing the list with straw-men from Vaisnava history and then filling gaps with names of dreamed-up foggy-fogies, Bhaktisiddhanta (De's guru,) contrived an inventory of acaryas, and then published that disciplic succession to silence opposition against his late father.
Bhaktisiddhanta's father (BhaktiviNO Thakur) was proclaimed a fraud and publicly denounced by his guru, Bipin Bihari Goswami for writing and publishing self-venerating hypotheses as fact citing (not palimpsest but) non-existing manuscripts.
Even so, it was not easy faking a disciplic succession from time eternal. Bhaktisiddhanta hurdled the ice-age, stone-age, iron-age and Vaisnava tradition to propagate his fraud but still couldn't fill-in the eons between his Rip-van-Winkle acaryas and successors. De claimed DE-sciplic succession from Bhaktisiddhanta to propagate his own scam .. .. iskcon. And, as the quotes clearly indicate, the acarya scam is at a dead stop, already. So Bengali-De screwed his Yankee yogis. He rules them forever .. lord birth after birth.
n) “So we follow that ‘No Change Policy’. Not that because I think I have become now advanced, I change this to that. That means I am not advanced.”
o) “I am the initiator guru, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you should actually come to this platform. “ (Letter, August 4, 1975.)
illusions, cheating, and defective perception do not occur in the sayings of
authoritative sages.” (Cc. Adi
BIF: When asked why he believed the Sun was closer to Earth than the Moon, De said - "Sunday comes before Monday." For further DEfective perceptions that occur in quotes of DE-siplic authorized De, please read our articles- "Elephant in the Room" .... 'Prophet and Loss."
is no possibility that a first-class
devotee will fall down…” (Cc.
Madhya 22.71, Purport)
BIF: Not unless he falls off De's flat Earth, which is carried piggyback on four elephants going piggyback on a turtle.
END of PART ONE
HEIL HITLER (Revisited)
"Religion is not faith, it is fear. Fear is greater than faith."
1) Here we present a revision of our “Heil Hitler” article : a fateful conversation in which two disciples (Jamadagmi and Kanupriya) approach the iskcon 'acarya' (DE aka. Prabhupada) with regards to fabulations in iskcon philosophy, and concerns about an iskcon sunnyasi who (after sodomizing his male servant) propositioned one of the two DE-sciples (Kanupriya) for homosex. This second part is fairly lengthy, and made longer by BIF comments, but, hopefully, worth a read.
2) Okay, here is the conversation posted between darts >> << and interspaced with BIF comments:
Ref. VedaBase => Room Conversation June 26, 1975, Los Angeles
(Los Angeles, June 26,
>>Prabhupada (De) : So you have given up the Vaisnava-sadacara for business selling. So you can be dangerous for that.
Jamadagni: But we have also maintained the Vaisnava-sadacara. They didn't tell us...<<
3) BIF: De identifies himself as the origin of iskcon cult ethnocentricity. He declared ALL independent activity outside cult control as ... dangerous for that.
>>Prabhupada: That's all right. You
do that. But they do not see whether you are
4) BIF: De stipulated that All cult activity be monitored by his honchos. If an initiate worked inDEpenDEnt of De, s/he was DEclared DEviant.
>>Jamadagni: But at the same time, when we were maintaining that, we had the same problems, is that, when we presented sociological applications of the philosophy, for instance, to arrange marriages in a reasonable way, that the women not be sent out on sankirtana to prostitute themselves to sell books, but be trained up to be wives, or that the brahmacaris in the temple, someone would sit and talk with them and see how many of them want to be married and try and arrange some type of training for them, knowing that most of them are going to become married, rather than just have no training and one day find oneself married, out on the street with no occupation or training.<<
5) BIF: Obviously, prostitution was in practice when De was alive and controlling his cult. So it must be assumed that it was he who instituted the traditional Gaudiya Vaisnava gotipua / devadasi temple prostitution and pedophilia in iskcon.
>>Prabhupada: First of all, you are not trained up. You are sometimes becoming astrologer, sometimes this, sometimes that.
Jamadagni: It's true, because of my birth in this... <<
6) BIF: De attacks the complainant but avoids the subject of prostitution. This should not be mistaken for anything other than what it is, i.e., iskcon women were procured to solicit honey-money for De's narcissistic grandiosity. The reason De gave the complaint no attention was because his own sexual beliefs stemmed from a DEgenerate sect:-
"The devadasi and gotipua sex racket, run by sect temples, was out in the open and under review. Furthermore, the sect was well known for men who dressed up like blue god-krishna and had homosex with boys and men who dressed-up like krishna's flute-loving eight-year-old cowherd girlfriends, sakhi-bekhis. The Gaudiya branch of the krishna sect (Chaitanyaites) also had their own drag queens and cross dressers known as gauranga-nagaris."
>>Prabhupada: So how they can follow you?
Kanupriya: We're not asking them to follow us. We're asking you Prabhupada, that these are some problems.
Prabhupada: My request is that first of all you adopt yourself the Vaisnava acara. Then you try to teach others. Otherwise you have no right.<<
7) BIF: Attack is the best defense. De expected everyone looking into his opulus to see DE-ME-GOD ... as DEscribed in para.10. Further, we explained the godman psychology in our article- "SS/OC=Cult." Here is an excerpt. Bear it in mind as we progress:-
"Outgroup homogeneity reinforces ethnophaulism but on a larger scale by pushing memory implants to the limit once the host is primed and prone, which is affirmed by acceptance of the most outlandish recommendations and suggestions, i.e., the sun is riding on a chariot hauled by little men through the universe for a distance of 760,800,000 miles @ 16,004 miles per nano second, or, women are less intelligent, or, one can train pigeons to carry one into outer space, or, farmers hewed into the bones of a twelve- mile-long dead witch with grass-cutting sickles, or, god is really Randy Rambo. When these friar's lanterns are accepted as creed, isolation of the host from outside influence, investigation, or aid, is complete."
>>Kanupriya: But we have done that for five years, and no one here listened to us at all.
Prabhupada: So why you are anxious to listen... You... Let them not listen. You do your own duty.<<
8) BIF: De's spoken English is Benglish, but his writing (he claimed was dictated to him daily by blue god-krishna) is ... Kentucky fried. Do we see a repeat of BhaktivNO's fraudulence and fakery? Anyway the parrying above is typical of De's DEfensive DElemma, which fits in perfectly with the listed Characteristics of a Narcissist.
>>Kanupriya: We had no duty. They gave us nothing to do. They would not recognize our qualities, as we understand, even of, say Krsna consciousness.
Prabhupada: So what can I do?<<
9) BIF: De was only interested in initiates who DEcocted his DEcretal to being The Supreme Personality of Godhead by proxy. His DEaconing of the DEvout to help DEbunk DEtractors is visible for any one who looks. Any iskcon member (even to this day) who questions De's DEception is DEemed a DEvil ; a DEmon. Ostracism is immediate and ejection inevitable.
>>Kanupriya: Well, you can make statements on certain of these things so that when they hear them, their ignorance will be dispelled.
Prabhupada: Then we have to hear both of you. We have to hear both you... There will be regular court, and we shall see.
Jamadagni: Not court, simply...
Prabhupada: No, no.
Kanupriya: That would be fine.
Prabhupada: Before me. You are saying something. They may say something else. So brothers together, we sit down together, and bring this...<<
10) BIF: De's preDEliction is apparent. To this point we can surmise he was briefed. He knew both complainants had given up the Vaisnava-sadacara for business selling. Nothing more serious is mentioned yet De threatens to convene a 'regular court' of 'brothers together' to pass judgment. De was predisposed and, as a result, had a negative opinion. Which tells us De was informed about EVERYTHING. So why didn't he convene a court to oust the pimps, prostitutes, homosexual rapists, pedophiles, druggies and hoodlums within his cult? He knew what was going on ... felonies enacted directly under his snuff-clogged nose.
>>Kanupriya: All right. But we have some, also, questions that don't require that. These are philosophical questions. For instance, in Krsna Book there is a statement that King Ugrasena had four billion personal servants. Now you have asked that we go and spread Krsna consciousness to the scientific community.<<
11) BIF: We are ever grateful to Kanupriya and Jamadagni for highlighting (at least) this much of the mass stupidity on record. Now the BS begins. Listen closely to DEceptive De.
>>Prabhupada: So everyone is servant. What is the question of four billion? Krsna's servant...
Kanupriya: No, Ugrasena, King Ugrasena, that when he was on the planet, he had four billion personal servants.
Prabhupada: That's all right. He is always the master. He... The Krsna is the only master.
Kanupriya: Not Krsna. No. King Ugrasena, Prabhupada. Not Krsna. King Ugrasena. The statement is that King Ugrasena had four billion personal servants. Now, we have gone and tried to spread to the scientific community. And if we say to them, "There was a king whose name was Ugrasena. He had four billion personal servants," they laugh and say, "What did they do for toilets? What did they do for food? Where did they live?" <<
12) BIF: When pondering the (mythical? .. but surely) king in question, who ruled a dust bowl in Uttar Pradesh, and considering today's India with its overburdened- 1. 27 billion inhabitants, De and his DE-sciples should be holding this discussion in a lunatic asylum. The entire Krishna yarn is far too fictitious to weave and wear. Here is the DElerium, direct from De's DEosophy .... Krishna Book, Chapter- 90:-
"Srila Sukadeva Goswami informed Maharaja Pariksit that he had heard from reliable sources that simply to teach the children of the Yadu dynasty, there were as many as 38,800,000 tutors or acaryas ... [...] ... As for their military strength, it is said that King Ugrasena alone had ten quadrillion soldiers as personal bodyguards ... [...] ... King Ugrasena had four billion personal servants ... [...] ...
... and now for the Krishna kelter...
.... Krsna had 16,108 wives ... [...] ... Krsna's children numbered 16,108 times ten ... [...] ... He claims all living entities as His sons (so was it INCEST or HOMOSEX?) ... Among Krsna's greatly powerful sons, eighteen sons were maha-rathas. The maha- rathas could fight alone against many thousands of soldiers, charioteers, cavalry and elephants ...
13) No Earthling or civilization outside the sect (all living entities as His sons,) had a monkey's uncle about Ugrasena's urkingdom or krishna's maha-rambo elephant killers.
>>Prabhupada: So you want to preach this particular portion and no other portion?
Jamadagni: No. We want to... We want to know if the story has an allegorical meaning rather than a literal translation, or that King Ugrasena who was a man who lived five thousand years ago and had four billion bodyguards, or whether the stories within the Bhagavatam, apart from some of them being actual, are allegorical stories. Such as the story of Krsna and Balarama chopping off the the eighty-eight...<<
14) BIF: Why the need to 'preach' it at all? Surely something as bombastic as what De claims as truth would be common knowledge. If readers believe the Ugrasena baloney to be far-fetched, please read through our articles Deux ex Machina and on to Ululations from a Cave ... etc., etc. The madness is not simply mansworn but malefic. And we still haven't covered the tip of DE dung heap.
>>Prabhupada: All right. You can give up that portion. You can take other portion.
Kanupriya: We don't mean to give it up.
Jamadagni: We don't mean to give it up.
Kanupriya: We're saying how can we say to them...
Prabhupada: Anyone, anyone... Why you are going to preach that portion to a professor?
Jamadagni: No. When they read your books, they pose that question to us.
Kanupriya: They read it. They say to us.
Jamadagni: And unless we can answer that question...
Prabhupada: They ask to only you, but they never ask to us.
Revatinandana: They have. Sometimes they ask me.<<
15) BIF: Oops! Another DE-sciple has joined the complainants, and on his own initiative. Stress is mounting on DEsperado whose books clearly emphasize- "We have to accept all the injunctions of the scripture as they are given, not only those that suit us." (Science of Self-Realization, pp. 129-33 ) ... " If one believes in the Vedic literatures, one must accept all the Vedic literatures recognized by the great acryas.. (Renunciation Through Wisdom 5.1) ... "We cannot simply accept that part of the scripture we like, and reject what we don't like, and still expect to get the result." (Iskcon, Frankfurt- 1974.) ... " If you believe one thing and do not believe another thing, then it is called ardha-kukkuṭī-nyāya (Cc. Ādi-līlā 5.176). Ardha-kukkuṭī-nyāya. I cannot believe half. If you believe, you believe full." But now, when asked by three neophiles to explain the neolatry, De goes DElinquent.
>>Prabhupada: That's all right. Let them ask. But you can tell away that (?) but you don't repeat this thing. You can give up that portion. You read other portion.<<
16) BIF: He cannot answer the unanswerable. So De tells them to do what he does... DEflect ... "Sunday comes before Monday."
Hare krishna fabulists are arithmophobic : cannabis calculus.
>>Jamadagni: But then because so many things they have to accept on faith without knowing, it then weakens their faith as to what they should accept and why should they accept Krsna, who they can't see any more than King Ugrasena's four billion bodyguards.<<
17) BIF: A valid point. So much DEclassé and DEaconing but only one visible DEnominator - De : a brownie wanna be bluey ... god by proxy.
>>Prabhupada: Don't accept. Don't accept.<<
18) BIF: This is no foible. It reveals De as a bogus altruistic teacher. Where on record do we find a priest instructing seminarians to not accept holy writ because they found a bug in the brainwash? Who other than a smug narcissist would give such advise?
>>Kanupriya: But we want them to accept. The point is, if we say to a scientific man, "There was four billion," and if our statement is wrong...
Prabhupada: But our position is that if some portion we cannot understand, it is our incapability.<<
19) BIF: NO! Mr. DE-ME-GOD !! When YOU flash YOUR photograph (front and back) on every book published by YOUR cult press ... when YOU undersign every volume as author ... when YOU profit from the sales .. and ... when YOU claim the work is NON-FICTION !!! ... the onus is YOURS to prove where and how YOU got your facts. It is DEceitful to DEfer query to happenstance or some hairy-fairy Farquaad from Gaudiya Vaisnava Shrek-land who "heard from reliable sources."
>>Kanupriya: That is all right. But since we are...
Prabhupada: That's all. Unless we have got this faith we cannot use these Puranas. In the Puranas there are many such statements.
Kanupriya: Yes, but we just want to understand.<<
20) BIF: We agree with De in that puranas have many such statements (plagiarized Aesop's Fables, or worse.) Faith, as Mark Twain so cleverly put it, is believing in something we know ain't so. The imposition of 'faith' and 'surrender' are keys to enslavement and exploitation of mankind by religious DEspots, since time immemorial. As noted in our articles- "SS / OC" and "WOBBLERS," ... genetic explanation for the anomaly lies in Monoamine Oxidase (MAO-A,) an aggressive warrior gene (found in 30% of humans) exerting control over a mammalian hormone Oxytocin (OC) ... dubbed the "Hormone of Love" (found in 70% of humans.) When applied to the statement above, and indeed to all things cult, religious domination and sadomasochism is xxx-rayed.
>>Prabhupada: Therefore many people, they do not accept Puranas. So what can be done?
Kanupriya: We're just trying to understand it because we've never dealt with Puranas before. We have been your disciples. But when we present this to the scientific community, because you have said that if one word is wrong, the whole philosophy is wrong, so they will say to us...
Prabhupada: So let them take it and throw out, don't read it. That's all.<<
21) BIF: Straight from the mouth of Cavillo DE Cult .... many people do not accept Puranas. To call a honky a brownie ... Indians were tickled pink with De's conversions of Amrikans to Hinduism. Indian sadakas jumped on the De rath-cart and continue to this day to financially support iskcon's "Festivals of India." But that does not take away from the truth i.e, when De says many people, they do not accept puranas ... he means Indians. Others never did. The Indians involved with iskcon are not there because of king Ugrasena's quadrillions ... they are there because they believe the cult is a branch of Hinduism, and its white practitioners (Dasa' ... Dasi') are converts.
>>Kanupriya: But then they discredit the Bhagavad-gita. We don't like that when they discredit the Bhagavad-gita.
Prabhupada: Why? They don't believe. What is the use?
22) BIF: Herein lies the enigma. Whereas the enquirers cannot swallow Ugrasena's quadrillions, they appear to have digested the Bhagavad-gita. Ah yes, the iskcon Bhagavad Gita AS It Is (Bg aii.) An opus DEvised to Devote to De. A story where millions waited (elephants and all) while krishna hard-sold himself as god to a sidekick, Arjuna. Everyone watched and waited as Arjuna looked into the sky, tripping on a Universal Form no one else could see (there would have been a stampede if they did.) But … o' yes … albeit krishna did not mention him … and even though not one in millions of men or beasts could see the form .. there was Mr. Wi-fi Sanjay, who could see and hear it all from miles away … because they really needed to write a book that could toll humanity for ever … in god's name.
23) Interestingly … Arjuna was gobsmacked when he saw the Form, but when Sanjay described the episode to blind King Dhritarashtra, … it didn't raise a coo wee. Not even a Dhritarashtra uvacha: “Sanjay! Are you on crack or elephant tranquilizer?” or ..."Big deal. He does it at every Sunday feast" ... or the more kingly - “Holy shit! Krishna is god! Get those guys outta there or he's gonna chew them up!” Nope. He never spoke a word about any Universal Form. Nor did he connect the dots between Universal Form, god, and krishna. And he was then and there … right on the pulse. So may the cult forgive us our iniquities as they so easily overlook their own idiocies.
24) If the query is whether dysfunctioning cult neural-implants factor in acceptance and rejection of puranic punditry, here are some pointers to aid rejection:-
For Bhagavad Gita gammon click HERE Scroll down to comments and links.
For Mahabharata macromania click HERE
If you prefer the BIF Editor's take on it (recommended,) read HERE. Begin at para. 15.
>>Kanupriya: Well, because we also want to know how did they have four billion personal servants just so that we'll be able to convince them and also...
Prabhupada: If a king has four billion servants, so it is not very astonishing. Why do you think that a king shall have only four servants?
Kanupriya: Well, there's only two billion people on the planet right now.
Prabhupada: That's all right.
Kanupriya: So where did they all go?<<
25) BIF: NO! It is NOT all right! The DEfense, in retrospect, shows no improvisation. When a DEvotee asked how was it possible for (puranic) Brahma to ride on a swan, De DEcked him with- "What experience have you got? You have no experience. Have you got any experience of other planetary systems? What is there? Then? Your experience is very teeny. So you should not calculate Brahma's life and other things from your teeny experience." And all the goons surrounding De could be heard chuckling. The intimidation technique was well used in DEfense. De knew the challenge posed for anyone asking smart-ass questions in a room packed with people. Especially when they knew fully well what the result would be. De was a DEsperate DEspot. He was trading shit for slaves. A poster cultus cullion.
>>Prabhupada: I say you don't believe, you don't take it. Why you are insisting on that point? If you don't believe, you don't take it. If you don't believe the whole book or the whole society, then who forbids you?
Kanupriya: We were hoping that there are some things which can be improved, because they have not been set up by you.
Prabhupada: No. You cannot improve. Whatever we are, we are.
Kanupriya: Why can we not improve it?
Prabhupada: No. There is no possibility.
Kanupriya: Then what is the use of action?
Prabhupada: Action, whatever action we can do by chanting Hare Krsna, that's all.
26) BIF: The iskcon maha ha-ha mantra has got to be the biggest gyp of them all. If not for the coda - "Please give some donation," it would make less monkey than the BIF mantra- "Prabhupada - piddled - a - pecking- order - of - podex – pundits." And our mantra has only half the words, half the syllables, and no repeats. That means initiates can chant and go street-begging in half the time.
>>Kanupriya: But we also have to make varnasrama society or farms or businesses.
Prabhupada: That, when we shall do, we shall see to it.
Kanupriya: But we are doing it. We are.
Jamadagni: We are doing it now, and that's the question...
Prabhupada: So do it in your own way.
Kanupriya: We don't want to. We want to do everything Krsna's way.<<
27) BIF : Varnasrama? Another De DEcretal to DEclassé. Iskcon hare krishnas still talk of the varnasrama caste system as having its origins in krishna's Bg-aii. But that cat is long since out-the-bag (read our article - "BBB"). Varnasrama was instituted by the Brahmin caste, who also interpolated Hindu scriptures (including the Bg) to get god-money, holy sex and willing slaves... The same goals as iskcon. India's Constitution does not recognize the caste system. Discrimination is a felony. Anyhow, since we are at this juncture, let's take a quick peek at what De meant by varnasrama ... and, as always, the quotidian DElemma that follows:
De: "The ksatriyas should be taught how to fight also. There will be military training. There will be training how to kill."
28) BIF: This is nothing but DEgas. The Gaudiya sect was branded "Effeminate" by Bengali scholars in its heyday. While Indian Nationalists fought against foreign imperialists, these guys wore saris and chased each other around in the bush doing anal lila. And when Indian citizens fought each other to death in racial riots, these Nancy boys abandoned their varnas ; painted Christian crosses on their doors and never came out until the riots were over. Don't tell us any different. WE WERE THERE! And nothing has changed. Iskcon is packed from mouth to anus with bum-shakers. They could do your interior decor, cream your cupcake, dance like Chaitanya, or even pander to panarchy ... But KILL !?
De: Just like ksatriyas, they have to learn how to kill. So practically, they should go to the forest and kill some animal. And if he likes, he can eat also.
29) BIF: How will iskcon identify its ksatriyas, sudras etc.? Hindu Brahmanas classified varna by birth. Iskcon cannot possibly revive that redundancy in the West. Furthermore, every iskcon cultist was told by De that chanting the maha ha-ha mantra takes them to the platform of Vaisnava, superior to Brahman. To force anyone into cleaning toilets because the cult designated him sudra, for whatever reason, is a pot-of-gold for prosecuting attorneys. Another point to consider is the instruct- go to the forest and kill some animal ... Really? Those days are long gone. Animals can only be killed by hunters holding gun-licenses. Unless one lives in rootin' tootin' shootin' America (and only certain states,) applicants for gun licenses must wait between three to four years ; must answer a string of questions, and should come recommended by a gun club. Can a kinky, gun-totin' mardi gras mermaid wait that long for a hot-dog? And can iskcon afford to have its administrators running around going bang-bang in the forest when shooting down unwary Indian donors is so much easier? They can still do a hot-dog ... and even eat meat. It's all going on nicely. Why start an unnecessary DE-sturbance?
De: "Those who are ksatriyas, they can, they’re allowed sometimes to eat meat....[...]... So if the ksatriyas, they want to eat meat, they can be allowed on particular occasions. But they must go to the forest and kill the animal. Not that for meat- eating regular slaughterhouses should be maintained. This is all nonsense, degradation."
30) BIF: Here is evidence of sociopathic DEception. De wore the mantle of an Indian holy man by pretending to support non-violence ..."ahimsa." But his statements betray a psycho in DE-ME-GOD clothing. He had no empathy for anyBODY ... within or without his DElusion.
Indian crusaders for 'cow protection," like Maharishi Dayanand, and most members of the current BJP Government, support animal protection as a whole (vegetarianism) because they follow "Vedic" tenets of equality beyond the body, i.e. All souls are equal. In his statement above, De censures commercial slaughter while providing for his caitiff cup-cakes ... Just like his fabled "maha-rathas" who slaughtered thousands to ... not-so-subtly... threaten competitors (Saivites, Jains, Buddhists et al) with a Tinkerbelle-has-testosterone overkillability.
De: The sudras, they can take a goat and sacrifice before the deity, goddess Kali, and then eat. Nobody should be given unrestricted freedom to eat meat. Or wine. If one is adamant to drink wine, then there is Candi-puja, Durgā-pūjā.
31) BIF: Considering the ambiguity of De's instructions on matters of less importance, e.g. continuation of initiations that now lie res adjudicata under his No Change edict, the above statement leaves yet another DEmurrer : It conflicts with primary "Regulative Principles" for initiation imposed by De, i.e. No meat eating ... No intoxication, and the more subtle but rigorously enforced rule- "No worship of demigods" (other than Mr. DE-ME-GOD, himself.)
Which raise questions ... how will iskcon identify caste - a) Will the initiation vows for ksatriyas be amended to permit killing and eating of flesh? b) Will the initiation vows for sudras be cut down to accommodate eating dead bodies and drinking wine? c) Will they be permitted to worship demigods, as mentioned by De? d) Is this an iskcon / BhaktiviNo / Bhaktisiddhanta / Bhaktividanta (De) sampradaya tradition? e) Where can we find it on record ? f) Who will make amendments to the initiation rites, and by whose permission? g) Will amendments finally reveal the maha ha-ha mantra's inability to raise chanters to a "Vaisnava, superior to Brahmana" status ... or accept varnas designated by cult discrimination in breach of Constitution Rights?
Prabhupada: Stop it. Stop it. I say stop it. You have come to me for my advice. I say you stop it.
Kanupriya: Then, we say, what should we do?
Prabhupada: You should do your business. That's all. Earn money and enjoy.
Kanupriya: No, I mean what should we do Krsna consciously?
Prabhupada: You give up Krsna consciousness, I say. That is my advice.
Kanupriya: Why should we do that?
Prabhupada: Then that I cannot say.
32) BIF: Obviously, based on information fed him, De DEcided the two sitters before him ran businesses and hung on to profits. He would not go on record demanding they hand over cash, so he 'advises' them to pack up and ship out without further explanation. De preached that 'everything belonged to krishna' (or De, who was krishna by proxy.) His narcissism DEmanded that together his DEvotees form an entity (De) greater than the sum of its individual parts. He expected every DEvotee to concentrate total energy in distributing propaganda, which expanded his cult with him at the center. He had a plan that shows his lack of empathy for life: De:: "It is not that because Mohammed used a sword, we also must use a sword, No ! - we can use a Gun. We will ask -...You like Krishna ?? No -- Booom.. You like Krishna ? No -- Booom . we can use everything for Krishna, we can use the ATOM BOMB FOR KRISHNA !! .... Not now, but later when we are more powerful."
>>Jamadagni: Isn't there a middle of the road?
Prabhupada: If you are finding so many faults, you give it up.
Jamadagni: No. We're not finding fault.
Prabhupada: Then there is no other advance, alternative. No alternative. Either you accept or reject it.
Jamadagni: We accept, but we would like some instruction on...
Prabhupada: No. I have no such knowledge to convince you.
Jamadagni: No, we accept Krsna consciousness philosophy...
Prabhupada: That's all right. Accept, or if you reject, reject.
Jamadagni: We accept.
Kanupriya: We want to apply it.
Jamadagni: We want to apply it to the world as it is now.
33) BIF: No matter how intelligent the individual ... if there is a 'love bug' predisposition to assemble and ritualize ... there will always exist a desperation to believe and conform. And that is what introduces the gullibility factor.
Prabhupada: No no. You cannot. You are not authorized.
Jamadagni: Well, who is authorized?
Prabhupada: The authorized... You are not authorized. Who is authorized, that is not your business.
Kanupriya: Then what does it mean to become disciple?
Prabhupada: Disciple, if you don't like, give it up.
Kanupriya: We do like it.
Prabhupada: You have already given up.
Kanupriya: If we didn't like it, we would not come here.
34) BIF: We have already exposed De's fake"authority " in paragraphs 11-13. So far, from what we hear, the two DEsciples are seeking advice on how to help spread the cult contagion. All they get in return is BS from a man who claims authority from, and equality to, god.
Prabhupada: No, no. You have already given up. My disciples do not keep so many hair.
Kanupriya: Many of your disciples do.
Prabhupada: No. I don't accept that. You just this one circle, little. But those who are keeping big hairs, they are rejected from my disciples.
Kanupriya: All right. That is clearing some things up.
Kanupriya: This is what we want to know.
Kanupriya: Because then that is an unequivocal statement.
Prabhupada: No. This is, that you can, that anyone who is keeping hairs and not following the rules and regulations, they are rejected from second initiation.
Kanupriya: What if they are keeping hair but they are following the rules and regulations.
Prabhupada: Then let them follow. That's a good life. But from external features he must be a Vaisnava.
Kanupriya: To get second initiation.
Jamadagni: Does that mean shaved head?
Prabhupada: Caitanya Mahaprabhu, when His students used to come without tilaka, so He refused to see his face. He refused to see his face. He said it is a crematory ground.
Kanupriya: Why is that?
35) BIF: Tilaka has nothing to do with big hairs. George Harrison had big hairs but he donated real estate so De kissed his ass and called him - Hari's son. Alan Ginsberg had hair like a yeti, was a well known pedophile ... speaker for the "North American Man Boy Love Ass." (pedantrists.) De had no problems making public appearances with the man and ... had private meetings with him, as well. But the most hairiest-scariest of all was De's guru's father, BhaktiviNO Thakur.... the first of iskcon's three-man disciplic succession. We have posted a pic. of the mop-head to show how many big hairs he opium cultivated.
>>Prabhupada: There is no "why." If you accept it, accept. If you don't accept, leave us, leave us. There is no "why."
Kanupriya: Then that is...
Prabhupada: You are not following strictly. You cannot ask why.
Kanupriya: We could not ask why when we were following strictly either, Prabhupada. So I'm sorry that it has to be this way.
Prabhupada: No, our thing is that we have got some principles. If anyone cannot follow, then we don't accept him.
36) BIF: Where in the history of the Gaudiya sect, or the iskcon cult, can we find records on the 'principle of hair'? De made up rules as he went along. He was a DEspot who DEvised to DEplete, DEpress and DEvolve.
>>Jamadagni: Then what do you do with the rest of the world, except for the few people who...
Prabhupada: So what I can do I am doing. Therefore you have no right to ask me. What is possible by me I am doing. And those who are able to follow, they are following. That's all.
Kanupriya: But they cannot engage anyone else. How can you reach the intelligent class?
Prabhupada: So that is their business. That is not your business.
Kanupriya: We are trying to be disciples, so we considered it our business because we are sincerely trying.
Prabhupada: So why you are bothering me? You do your business.
Kanupriya: Because from you only...
Prabhupada: I do not accept you because you are keeping hairs.
Kanupriya: I did not know that.
Kanupriya: You never told me that in Hawaii.
Prabhupada: Now I say, I'll repeat that anyone who is keeping long hairs, he is no more my disciple.
Kanupriya: All right.
Prabhupada: This is the first condition.<<
37) BIF: No one knew about the many / big / long hairs principle. If there was one, De would have made reference- "It is in my books." But there is no such reference so he says - "Now I say."
Slowly but surely Jamadagni and Kanupriya put DE-ME-GOD on notice for the world to see ... Read on.
>>Jamadagni: Does that apply also for householder dharma, or is that simply for brahmacari dharma? Even you... I have pictures of you on the Bhagavatam when you did not have shaved head, with a mustache when you were doing your business as a householder. So does that apply to householders, or only to brahmacaris, that a householder must also keep a shaved head or is that...?
Prabhupada: At that time I was not initiated. You were seeing my picture, mustaches, at that time I was not initiated. Since I became initiated, I have shaven.<<
38) BIF: But ...but... but De claimed to be sired by a "pure Vaisnava devotee of the Lord" (whatever the hell that is) ... yet he received no initiation until well into manhood? How is that? De; "My father was a pure Vaisnava, a great devotee of the Lord." His pure DEvotee father also gave his uninitiated twenty-two year old son (DE-ME-GOD) room to screw an eleven year old girl, who he then married and impregnated yearly and for years in succession. She was not a Vaisnavi. She drank tea and never chanted the maha ha-ha mantra. But that didn't affect DE snr. or jnr.... who may have shaved his mustaches after initiation but certainly continued using snuff and whipping his donkey. And continued to secretly snort tobacco until his death.
>>Jamadagni: Well, in India where one can do business...
Prabhupada: I can... Why you are bringing this question? You ask, "Why you had mustaches?" I say when I had mustaches, at that time, I was not initiated. That answer is given. That's all.
Kanupriya: Can I ask one more question, Prabhupada? What I would like to understand is why it is wrong to ask why? If I can just understand this, why it is wrong for us to ask you in a submissive way. We were humbly asking you these "whys," not because we are trying to be intimidating or we were trying to rebel, but because we have sincerely tried to understand as your disciples.
Prabhupada: So you better ask my so many other disciples?<<
39) BIF: De's DEfinition was that of an altruistic teacher whose onus it was to guide his students not just by scriptures (which he stole from others) but morally and ethically.
>>Jamadagni: They don't have any answers.
Prabhupada: Then there is no answer. I cannot attend so many things.
Kanupriya: We are not so many.
Jamadagni: But these are the same questions which we have talked over with Revatinandana Swami and Jayatirtha. A great many...
Prabhupada: If my disciples, advanced students, cannot answer, then I am sorry. I cannot answer. I cannot answer.
Kanupriya: That we did not know. That we did not know.
Prabhupada: Yes. Now you know it. I have appointed so many GBCs because to help me. It is not possible to see everyone, individual. This is not...
Jamadagni: But these are the same questions which they themselves are posing to you.
Revatinandana: I have never met any other people who asked questions on the level that they are asking questions. I cannot answer many of their questions. I have studied all your books.
Prabhupada: I cannot. If you cannot, I cannot also. Because you have been taught by me, if you cannot, then it is...<<
40) BIF: No one asked these questions before, nor since. De's narcissism DEmanded he be perceived as all powerful and unchallengeable. He had plagiarized the fabulations of others to promote himself. Now, when asked to explain fundamental flaws in those stolen writings, he found them realistically indefensible.
>>Kanupriya: We have also been taught.
Revatinandana: I have read your books, and I have heard you lecture. And so many things they are asking, I am, have no capacity to answer them. But you must have the capacity because you know Krsna. Therefore they want to ask you personally.
Jamadagni: So that is the...
Prabhupada: So far I am not so able to answer. I admit my fault.
Jamadagni: Oh, so then that is...
Prabhupada: I cannot answer.
Jamadagni: I understand. Okay? But they are saying, the general conception of you is that because you know Krsna...
Prabhupada: You can... You...
Jamadagni: (interrupting) Excuse me. Because you know Krsna, therefore you know everything about the material world and can answer all questions.
Prabhupada: So whatever I know I have explained in my books. Beyond that I have no knowledge.<<
41) BIF: De is NOT admitting his fault, which was to claim as his own, and assert as non-fiction, the pipe dreams of bhang-whacked balatrons. DE-sciples may read his books to create further DElirium and pick pockets, but they never study the babble. If they did, they would walk away like thousands before them who DEtected the obvious DEmented outgroup homogeneity in program and progress.
>>Kanupriya: If that is the case, Srila Prabhupada, that does not diminish our respect for you in the least because we have always held...
Prabhupada: So what can I do? I say that whatever I have got experience, I am explaining in my books. I have explained. So it is not possible for me to answer every individual person. It is not possible.<<
42) BIF: There is no explanation in 'my books' for the repeated rannygazoo. Nor could there be. The claims made are beyond ridiculous. All of De's public interviews were first time occurrences in which interviewers had barely enough time to scratch the surface. No interviewer had read or probed the books, so slam-dunk questions were never asked. It is why we respect the students involved who had the balls to question De in the presence of his goons.
>>Kanupriya: We respect that. We understand. It is just that because they are saying these things...
Prabhupada: I have got my advanced students. They can answer. If they are unable, answer, if you do not find answer from my books, then it is hopeless.
Jamadagni: Ah! But your advanced students are saying if they give an answer that because they have been appointed by you, therefore their answer is perfectly correct, because, absolutely correct on all things in the relative world because, they have been appointed by you, and because you know...<<
43) BIF: No one, not De nor his DEmented advanced students could provide an answer. Revatinandana was more than an 'advanced student.' He was an iskcon superior-to-brahmana sannyasi, and he admits to not having a clue. Further, as we will see, the room was occupied by several of De's sannyasis. None of them had an answer, or until it was time to attack in DEfence of the boss.
>>Prabhupada: You may... That's all right. If you don't believe them, you can finish business.
Kanupriya: But are they correct? That's what we want to know.
Prabhupada: Yes. They are correct.
Kanupriya: That everything they say is the absolute truth?
Prabhupada: So what can I say? But I have no time to meet everyone.
Kanupriya: Is that correct, Srila Prabhupada? I want to know very clearly that every word that anyone whom you have appointed says is completely correct on all things?
Prabhupada: Yes. If they are authorized, it is correct.<<
44) BIF: After showing respect and getting nowhere the questions are being loaded. This is where the fun begins.
>>Kanupriya: If they are authorized by you to be temple president...
Prabhupada: There is no reply.
Kanupriya: Then when (name witheld) said to me that he wanted to have homosexual affair with me, I should have said, "Okay. Whatever you say." Is that correct?<<
45) BIF: The 'name withheld' homosexual was an iskcon hare krishna De-authorized-sannyasi named Subal Swami … Save your spew, there's more to come.
>>Prabhupada: So how to answer these questions?<<
46) BIF: YOU initiated him- "Vaisnava, superior to Brahmana" … authorized his sannyas status.... YOU who claim to be good-as -god ... .. YOU MUST ANSWER!
Kanupriya: That is what he said to me. And he was a sannyasa. He is sannyasa and he said to me, "I want to have sex with you." Does that mean that Krsna was saying I should have sex with him?
Jayatirtha: So you have to see whether it is according to our principles.
47) BIF: Ah yes, Jayathirta, who was mentioned above as being consulted (we have talked over with Revatinandana Swami and Jayatirtha) but had no answers. Now he speaks. And what were the principles referred to by this iskcon guru- Jayathirta Swami? Well, we are glad you asked. He was fatally stabbed and decapitated a few years later by an enraged DEvotee (Tierney ...Navaniticara das) for taking LSD and copulating with any woman he could… HERE … read all about it.
>>Kanupriya: I'm asking you on a very practical... No. That is not what he said. He didn't say that. He said absolutely, and this is...
Upendra: Then you should listen to everything he said.<<
48) BIF: Ah yes, Upendra, who sat quietly until the mention of homosexual activity … died of aids a few years later. He was also a closet homosexual, iskcon swami.
>>Kanupriya: I am. Because if I can judge then, if I can say, "Oh, at this point he is wrong," then that is what we are talking about, Srila Prabhupada. That is the issue. If they are absolutely right all the time and they can make no error, they wield absolute power over our lives.
Prabhupada: Where is (name witheld)? Where is (he)?
Satsvarupa: He is across the street.
Prabhupada: Has he said like that?
Kanupriya: Yes. I have witnesses.<<
49) BIF: Without so much as a Show Cause Notice De drops inquiry into the sannyasi who is just across the street. So now we know he is told about prostitution in his cult ; he is also informed about swami homosex ; he knew about pedophilia (Bhavananda swami had been exposed earlier) ; he knew some of his disciples were swindlers but he accepted the loot … He did nothing. Yet he threatens to convene a court to castigate students seeking clarification on crock De claimed as fact.
>>Upendra: But he's admitted his error.
Kanupriya: That's beside the point.
Revatinandana: That's all right. But that's not the point here.
Upendra: The point is that Prabhupada, that if you come before Prabhupada for your own spiritual advancement, then it doesn't matter what other people are thinking... <<
50) BIF: Admitted his error? Is that what it is .. an error? Using seniority to sexually harass / pimp / demand sex / prostitute / sodomize / rape, is felonious ... animus nocendi … and must be reported / prosecuted for the safety and welfare of all concerned.
Yes, Mr. Upendra Swami, the students came before De for 'spiritual advancement.' When De had no answers he attacked them, and twice cued his goons … 'advanced DE-sciples' to jump in and save his bacon.
>>Kanupriya: That's not the...
Jamadagni: That's not the crux of the matter at all.
Revatinandana: The point here is not to criticize (him).
Jamadagni: No. We did not come for that at all.
Revatinandana: That wasn't the reason. The point is that anyone, (name witheld) or anybody else, he may be a sannyasi, but if he's doing all kinds of nonsense, how can we say that he has absolute authority? Because he was in charge of the place, etc., and he is also in an authoritative position, yet he breaks the principles.<<
51) BIF: Here we have a confirmed homosexual swami, a supposed celibate, sitting atop iskcon's holy food-chain by De's endorsement, and he is sodomizing young postulates. What does De do? ...Zilch. Rather, what we hear is what De put in place to protect his DE-dreams … De: “ (I am) ... to be accepted as guru and worshiped exactly like Hari, the personality of Godhead” …. while the prostitution, rape of children and adolescents continue. Read on.
>>Kanupriya: His personal servant, when he came... His name is (name witheld). (He) instigated a homosexual affair with him. This boy came to surrender to Krsna and surrendered to (him). But (he) told him to do that.
Upendra: But Prabhupada...
Kanupriya: Wait. I am not speaking with you. He said he did that and he did it in the name of his authority as a sannyasa. So if you say, Prabhupada, that everything that they say is absolutely true, then they will have absolute power and can do anything that they want, and anything that they say and any opinion they express is taken to be the same as yours, then it becomes implied that you agree with and condone such things, because they do them with absolute license. And we don't believe that to be true. So we think it is some kind of mistake.
52) BIF: Honestly, and intelligently, the onus of sine qua non (without which it could not be) is raised here. The reason De managed to evade responsibility for serious crime (as iskcon does today) is because DEvotees believe him to be DE-ME-GOD … a messiah sent to Earth to educate humanity and be worshiped by ALL … Prabhupadism:-
De: “He (god) asked me to come here and I said that I did not want to go because it was such a dirty place. He told me if you go I will arrange so many nice palaces for you to live in. I said but I do not want to go. He said you just go and write these books and I will make it comfortable for you. So because He asked me to write these books I came.”
…. so then he wrote about a king with gazillions of servants ... and another king who set fire to an eighty-eight mile high mountain (in Mathura !!!) which was probably formed by the defecation of a twelve-mile tall witch named Putana who was really a shape-shifting DEmon. Anyway, the two gods the king wanted to barbeque jumped off the mountain and into a honeymoon … which could easily have been interrupted by a gorilla who enjoyed raping aristocrats but was late catching the pushpa viman (flower airplane) from Africa. Then there was this hare krishna who could eat sawdust and shit planks ...blah blah blah bullshit. When asked (above) to explain just one of many twisted tales from the asylum, De DEfuses.
Prabhupada: They say like that?
Jamadagni: Everyone says like that.
Kanupriya: They do, Prabhupada.
Satsvarupa: No, they don't. Srila Prabhupada has said these things don't apply to you. Don't worry about them because you are not following the principles.
53) BIF: Ah yes, Satsvarupa, also a swami, later became a big hare krishna guru in iskcon. But his principles were also penis related ... when exposed with another man's wife. He is now a recluse … afraid of having his head removed. Mental, as his DE-mentor was.
>>Jamadagni: But they do say, and we are following and you don't know what we're doing, Satsvarupa, because you haven't known me for two years. So you really don't know what I'm doing. You're not around.
Satsvarupa: But our society is going nicely. It's not...
Kanupriya: In some respects it's going fine. But these are problems which can be dealt with amongst us, and they are affecting all of us. And for some people these are problems though they may not be for you. I think, as far as I know, your conduct has always been very honorable. But for some people who it's not and where these misconceptions apply, it's a real problem and we're trying to deal with it because it affects our lives.
Upendra: The strength to deal with those problems comes from following sadhanacara.
Kanupriya: We are also attempting to follow sadhanacara. And if we are imperfect...
Prabhupada: Anyway, if he has said so, that is wrong.
Jamadagni: But is that then applying to everyone. Does someone who is in the adminis... (end)
54) BIF: No philosophical differences exist between the original Vaisnava sect and its offshoot cult- iskcon hare krishna. It is one in discrimination, tone, sexual absorption ... and riddled with the same unchangeable and inDEfensible exaggerations. What De did attempt, was to hide the sect's promiscuity … its 'self evident immorality.' There was no way iskcon men in the West, back in the sixties, could wear womens' clothes and shake their asses down a public street without being openly gay …. or sell women and boys in temples without facing a RICO law suit. Nevertheless sexual exploitation : pedophilia, prostitution, homosexuality, along with extremism and violence, is condoned and lies open in the cult's philosophy.
Later, De ordered Ravitananda (excerpt below) to disassociate himself from Jamadagni and Kanupriya. But not from Subal … the promiscuous homosexual swami. In the end, all involved left the iskcon cult and never returned.
75-10-06 SP Letter: Revatinandana
.... You must, however, give up the association of Jamadagni and Kanupriya. Their company will not be beneficial to your Krsna consciousness.
KNOTS in a THREAD
1) 10th May 2014
"SHOPPERS have been told to think hard before giving money to people apparently collecting for charity in Southend High Street."
"In recent times adherents to the Hare Krishna faith have been seen handing out books and soliciting donations 'to help the poor' near Burger King’s High Street branch.
"When asked where the money would go, one of them, who gave the name, Govinda Hari Das, provided a flyer with a website address written in Hungarian.
"They claimed they were only giving out
books, but it later transpired they were also seeking donations to a Hungarian
project called Food for Life. Again they had no licence."
2) Protest against iskcon's monopolizing:
MANGALORE, July 2, 2014
“They demanded that the government should not hand over the entire mid-day meal scheme to the International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON) and ISKCON should not be allotted any government land for the purpose.
3) More DEmentia:
It’s all true and can be proven! You see, Vamanadev, on his second step, kicked a hole through the shell of the universe, right through the impenetrably thick layers of dirt, water, fire (ouch), air, mind, intelligence, and false ego. Through that hole some spiritual water leaked and that water became the Ganges, which, anyone can see when they go to India. So there is the proof, the Ganges is right there before our eyes! And, the water is filthy because it is the footbath (technically toebath) of Lord Vamanadeva!!! QED.
The rascal scientists with their imperfect senses think the rain that washes down the Himalayas into the Ganges is the cause of the Ganges, but that rain is maya rain meant to bewilder the pig (no offense, Lord Boar) scientists. The real water that makes the Ganges is spiritual water, invisible, until it becomes visible due to being infused by the chanting of the mahahamantra by the holy change-up artists. All things are possible with Bluey.
Scripture: The Ganges flows through a hole in the Universe to the North Star where if branches into 7 tributaries that go to 7 planets. From there, it is carried by celestial airplanes to Earth.
“The Ganges River comes from the Causal
Ocean, beyond the covering of the universe. After the water of the Causal Ocean
leaks through the hole created by Lord Vāmanadeva, it flows down to Dhruvaloka
(the polestar) and then to the seven planets beneath Dhruvaloka. Then it is
carried to the moon by innumerable celestial airplanes, and then it falls to the
top of Mount Meru, which is known as Sumeru-parvata. In this way, the water of
the Ganges finally reaches the lower planets and the peaks of the Himalayas, and
from there it flows through Hardwar and throughout the plains of India,
purifying the entire land.” ( sriMAD Bhagavatam
4) Does this newsfeed say Madhu Pandit was involved with the bribing of a judge who adjudicated a case with an obvious conflict of interest ?
Prasad on July 15, 2014
“Pinky, the lawyer for Gadkari was made Solicitor General. Manjunath as judge in Karnataka while hearing the ISKCON case produced a letter which alleged that he was a devotee of Bangalore ISKCON and received a memento. Manjunath was hearing a plea by ISKCON Mumbai that it was the owner of the Bangalore temple. The Law Ministry has not reacted.”
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